An die Neulinge: Gitarrenbefeuchter

[H-bone]

...diese andere Geschichte mit dem zu schnellen Aufwärmen und den dadurch möglichen fisseligen Lackrissen in schöner Krampfadern-Struktur.

Reinhard, auch das kann zu strukturell üblen Holzrissen führen... da ist im Extremfall nicht nur der Lack betroffen.

[Habib]

Morgen Jungs und Mädels--

ihr kommt doch noch klar oder?

Wenn ihr eure Gitarren einigermaßen regelmässig mit Fret-Oil oder Polish oder so pflegt und dazu die üblichen "Haushaltstricks" zum Thema Luftfeuchtigkeit beachtet.... meine Güte. dann passiert den Teilen schon nichts....Oder glaubt ihr eure geliebten alten Schätzchen aus den 40igern oder so sind über die Jahrzehnte mit Luftbefeuchtern malträtiert worden..?? Und die leben auch noch und klingen am geilsten...

Gruß
Klaus

[Bernd C. Hoffmann]

(..)

8. Bernd empfiehlt einen selbst gebauten "Reinhänger" als Hilfe gegen Temperaturwechsel (..)

Das sind Deine Worte, ich habe das nicht geschrieben. Den selbstgebauten Einhänger empfehle ich nur als Alternative zu einem kommerziellen Produkt und - wohlgemerkt - als Hilfe gegen zu geringe Luftfeuchtigkeit. Da ich in meinen Räumlichkeiten keine Pflanzen halte, habe ich etwas sensibelere Umgebungsbedingungen. Abgesehen davon verwende ich sicherlich andere Koffer als die, die beispielsweise beim letzten Ebaykauf dabei waren. Ich sehe auch im Unterricht, daß es haufenweise Sch....koffer gibt, die von der "eigentlichen" Materialstärke und dem Material selbst eigentlich auseinanderfallen müßten und fast gar nicht die Kälte abhalten. Dies sind zugegebenermaßen offensichtlich Chinakoffer aus den 70er Jahren oder noch älter, aber eine Kälteisolierung, wie bei einem zeitgemäß besseren Standardkoffer bringen derartige Kisten eben nicht. Eine Gitarre fühlt sich darin im Winter an der frischen Luft nicht wirklich wohl.

Ich komme gerade von den Würzburger Gitarrentagen zurück und war mit einigen Gitarrenbauern essen. Die haben von sich aus dieses Thema von mir angesprochen und gesagt, daß es auffällig ist, daß in diesem Forum neben korrekten Beiträgen es immer einige bestimmte Leute gibt, die über Gitarrenbau und klangliche oder technische Aspekte - auch im Hinblick auf Klimaverhalten - besonders viel wissen wollen. Ich habe nicht die Zeit dies hier auszuführen, aber auf den Punkt gebracht reicht es völlig aus zu sagen, daß ich mich den Worten von Frank Hermann anschließe.

Das Thema ist hiermit für mich beendet.

[Habib]

Ich komme gerade von den Würzburger Gitarrentagen zurück und war mit einigen Gitarrenbauern essen. Die haben von sich aus dieses Thema von mir angesprochen und gesagt, daß es auffällig ist, daß in diesem Forum neben korrekten Beiträgen es immer einige bestimmte Leute gibt, die über Gitarrenbau und klangliche oder technische Aspekte - auch im Hinblick auf Klimaverhalten - besonders viel wissen wollen.

Wen können die damit wohl gemeint haben...?

Bernd, hast du da vielleicht 'ne Idee ....?

Gruß
Klaus

[Bernd C. Hoffmann]

Wen können die damit wohl gemeint haben...?

Bernd, hast du da vielleicht 'ne Idee ....?

Gruß
Klaus

Vielleicht kannst Du Deine hintervotzigen Anspielungen für Dich behalten und ein bischen genauer recherchieren, was welche Mitglieder hier worüber schreiben. Dann beantwortet sich Deine Frage von selbst.
Das war´s jetzt endgültig.

[Habib]

Wen können die damit wohl gemeint haben...?

Bernd, hast du da vielleicht 'ne Idee ....?

Gruß
Klaus

Vielleicht kannst Du Deine hintervotzigen Anspielungen für Dich behalten und ein bischen genauer recherchieren, was welche Mitglieder hier worüber schreiben. Dann beantwortet sich Deine Frage von selbst.
Das war´s jetzt endgültig.

Nervös...???

Jeder zieht sich den Schuh an der ihm passt...
Gruß
klaus

[chevere]

http://www.justchords.com/reality/walte ... are.htmlht es der Gitarrenbauer Kraushhaar, dessn Seite auch sonst empfehlenswert ist:

http://www.justchords.com/reality/walte ... ycare.html

Grüße

[klaust]

Jeder zieht sich den Schuh an der ihm passt...

[erniecaster]

Hallo!

Oh, gerne mal recherchieren, wer hier eigentlich was schreibt:

Bernd C. Hoffmann am 18.11. um 15:52:
ein Gitarrenbauer hatte mir mal erzählt, daß einem seine Gitarre aus Riopalisander mehrere Risse nach einem längeren Wintermarsch bescherte. Ich bin davon überzeugt, daß Gitarrenbefeuchter ihre Berechtigung haben und ihren Zweck erfüllen.

erniecaster am 19.11. um 14:49:
8. Bernd empfiehlt einen selbst gebauten "Reinhänger" als Hilfe gegen Temperaturwechsel.

Bernd C. Hoffmann am 21.11. um 09:00:
Den selbstgebauten Einhänger empfehle ich nur als Alternative zu einem kommerziellen Produkt und - wohlgemerkt - als Hilfe gegen zu geringe Luftfeuchtigkeit.

Gruß

erniecaster

[Admin]

Das sind sicher alles wichtige Probleme, die hier unbedingt ausdisktuiert werden müssen, damit wir endlich alle Klarheit bekommen.

[Taylorpicker]

Ich werde mich nicht an dieser "Diskussion" beteiligen. Ich habe knapp 30 Jahre lang Erfahrungen mit meinen Gitarren gemacht und daraus meine Lehren gezogen. Dabei hat noch keine meiner Gitarren Schaden genommen. Ganz so falsch kann ich es also nicht gemacht haben.

Was ich aber eigentlich sagen will angesichts dieses Threads und des Verhaltens einiger Beteiligter: Wer keine Probleme hat, der macht sich welche.

Und vielleicht hilft dem einen oder anderen die Weisheit, die ich neulich einem Kinderbuch entnommen habe: Es gibt immer mehrere Möglichkeiten etwas richtig zu machen.

Viele Grüße
Taylorpicker

..., der sich wünscht, daß hier eine Gesprächskultur Einzug hält, die ohne die Herabsetzung Andersdenkender auskommt.

[chevere]

Wahre Freiheit hat man eigentlich erst bei mindestens drei Möglichkeiten (oller NLP-Grundsatz!!!)

Hab noch einen interessanten Link über "H-Bones 2003er-Löffel-link- connection" gefunden, wo unter der Rubrik 1973er "MODZILLA" D-18 eine Geschichte über ein Instrumnet zum Besten gegeben wird.
Hier erfährt jeder , der es wissen möchte, wie man Risse in sein Instrument bekommt!

Keine Sorge, die aufschlußreiche Geschichte endet glücklich:


http://www.bryankimsey.com/instruments/modzilla/


Grüße

[chevere]

Bitteschöööön:

The "Modzilla" D-28

modzilla.jpg (20689 bytes)

This was my first decent guitar, and it's responsible in one way or another for virtually all my musical progress. It started out as a 1973 Martin D-28. I bought it used for $690 in 1979, after I'd been flatpicking for about a year. At the time I didn't know anything about Brazilian rosewood or the ins and outs of various Martins. I scanned Frets and Bluegrass Unlimited for every tidbit I could find and about all I could determine was a lot of people played Martin D-28's. I also knew that I liked the "Martin" script on the headstock better than the mother of pearl inlaid "Martin". That's a good thing, because the MOP inlay belongs to 40 level instruments and up, none of which I could afford! None of the shops in Lexington, KY had any Martins in stock, certainly none I could afford so I started watching the want ads. One day, there it was: "Martin D-28. $750. call....". Well, I didn't have $750, but I did have an extra dirt bike. I stuck the ad in my wallet and set out to sell the dirt bike. A few weeks later, I had $650 cash and I called the number. "Still got the D-28?". "Yup". The lowest he'd go was $690 so a banjo playing friend and I drove out to his place. The guy was a preacher and had just a house full of instruments! And the reason he was selling the D-28 was because he'd just bought a Martin with that ugly MOP inlay on the headstock.... I ended up borrowing $40 from the banjo player and getting the D-28. I thought that was IT and I'd never, ever, ever possibly want another guitar! Ha, ha.

I put the big crack in the top in the very first week I had the guitar. At that time, it was in pristine condition. I sat down to play and swung my left foot up on my right knee. I had on hiking boots (waffle stompers...) and being young and limber, overswung and the boot just tapped the guitar top. Craaaackkkkk!

After a year or so, I discovered that the intonation was off. A guitar teacher recommended a shop, so I took it to them. Instead of actually correcting the intonation, they merely dressed the frets and lowered the action, thus making the guitar very hard to play (due to low frets) and also becoming the first luthier to rip me off. The intonation was better, yes, but there are much better ways to fix it. I took the guitar as is to South Plains College when I started in the bluegrass music program there in 1980. While there, I had the next to last fret inlaid with my initials so as to identify it as mine and also so I'd never be tempted to sell it. While I liked the guitar a lot, it seemed like every other guitar played better and easier than mine did. No one could tell me why, though. While at SPC, I started getting some finish cracks. We'd go most Saturdays to local jamborees with the instruments usually riding in the back of my pickup truck. At one, it was pretty cold, but I was in a hurry to get my guitar out and impress a cute little girl, so I didn't wait for it to warm up. Craaaaacckkkkkkk! Finish crack city!

modzilla_top.jpg (63502 bytes)

After SPC, I went to college at New Mexico State and continued to slog along on it. I shipped the guitar off to Frank Ford in 1983 for a brace scalloping job, at the recommendation of fellow SPC student, and now legendary fiddler, Stuart Duncan. Soon after, I replaced the plastic bridge pins with ebony. Both changes helped the sound a little. I still struggled with it, though, and didn't have either the money or knowledge to figure out why it wasn't playing well. I thought it was just me and that I was a sloppy player and just needed to practice more.

In 1985, I visited my friend and famous cowboy poet Buck Ramsey. Buck let me play his 1957 D-21 and as I was leaving said "Take that guitar home with you!". I left my D-28 with him. Well, I tell you what- my playing improved immediately and dramatically and literally overnight as a result of Buck's guitar. Suddenly I realized that it really might not be me, but the guitar that was at fault. I played Buck's guitar for almost 2 years before swapping back. When I picked up mine, Buck had a lot more finish cracks and worse, tried to clean them out with furniture polish! This resulted in stained finish cracks. I wasn't too worried about it, since I still didn't have much respect for the guitar. I did notice right away how much smoother and mellower my D-28 sounded. The rhythm sound was superb and it was only on leads that it didn't have "bark". But, man, did it play like a brick! At this point, I got totally frustrated with the D-28 and just put it up in the closet for nearly 2 years while I played my new Squier Stratocaster. Finally, we started working and making a little of money and I decided to either get the D-28 playing right or sell it. I'd been ripped off too many times by luthiers with their own agendas and little knowledge of how a bluegrass flatpicking guitar really should work.

modzilla_finish.jpg (83012 bytes)

A closeup shot of the finish cracks- there's probably not a square inch that doesn't look like this!

The search for a luthier began in 1990. I knew what was wrong with the guitar- the intonation was off and it was hard to play, but instead of going to the luthier and telling them that, I’d just hand them the guitar and see what they said. I’d mention the players I listened to. Most would say "Tony who?" and recommend anything from a neck reset to a fret job to "It feels fine to me" to a new guitar. I’d say "Oops, I gotta go!". Finally, one guy said "Ahh…I love "Manzanita"!" He measured a few things on the guitar and said "I bet it plays hard and it’s out of tune". This luthier was Craig Anderson, formerly of Santa Fe, now making custom guitars in NYC. I left the guitar with him and he moved the saddle slot back, changed the Grover Rotomatic tuners, refretted it, and radiused the fretboard back to stock (it was dead flat and that was the first I’d heard that fretboards even HAD a radius!). When I got it back, it was great!! Craig was the guy that made it play.

I pretty much left the guitar alone for the next 5 years. But then I bought a HD-28 for a friend. This guitar had an enlarged soundhole and sounded pretty good! I got to thinking about doing this to my guitar and finally decided that the value was pretty well shot with the modifications already done, so I got out some sandpaper and went to it! Immediately I noticed a more biting sound and I, as a player, could hear the guitar a LOT better. I was starting to like this guitar! But the neck still didn’t seem quite right- it was good, but other guitars STILL seemed easier to play. By now it was 1994, I was actually working, my falconry book was out, and for the first time in my life, getting another acoustic seemed like a possibility. To back-track just a bit, I did end up buying the HD-28 with the enlarged hole from my friend, but I got mildly ripped off in the deal, and like a fool I got mad and sold the guitar. From this, though, I knew that my D-28 sounded great, but just played hard. I decided that I wanted a Martin D-28 "1935 Reissue", found one, and bought it. Now I had a perfectly stock Martin to use as a comparison and standard. I started exploring and measuring things instead of just going by "feel" and this was the start of my lutherie.

mid_modzilla.jpg (69116 bytes)

This is the Modzilla mid-modification. Note the orginal neck with BAK inlaid, 1st replacement pickguard, and original short-saddle bridge.

In 1996, we moved to the ranch in New Mexico and suddenly I had both time and room to really concentrate on what made one guitar play well and another play poorly. I started buying lutherie tools and reading and asking questions. Eventually, I found out that the radius on the D-28 was not even. The bass side was 16", but it curved down to 12" on the treble sides. Hmmm….I thought. Later, I found out that this is a common trick in setting up electric guitars and then I remembered that I’d asked Craig to set it up just like my Strat’s neck. While this may work on electric, on the D-28 it always felt like I was having to reach a little deeper for the treble strings and it would throw me off. I also discovered that my D-28’s neck was 1 10.5/16" wide, making it a skinny feeling neck. By now, I’d been playing the D-28 1935 Reissue and I knew that I liked wider 1 ¾" necks. I also knew that the D-28 needed a neck reset so I decided to just replace the whole neck with a vintage width one. Luthier’s Mercantile started selling CNC’ed vintage neck replicas, and I bought one, along with a truss rod, fretboard and etc. This really began my serious luthier tinkering! After a couple of false starts and botched attempts I got the neck on to my satisfaction (then!) and immediately realized that I was going to need a new bridge with wider spacing to go along with the new wider neck. Seems obvious now!

modzilla_head.jpg (32859 bytes)

The Modzilla's headstock.

I also tried bolting the neck on like Collings (I’d just bought my Collings CW) and Taylor. Along with this, I discovered the "popsicle" brace and all the sound improvement claims that go along with not having it. So, I removed that, too! My first bridge was awful. Too thick and not cut far enough into the wings. After having the guitar together and playing for about 6 months- and it sounded pretty good, but not killer yet- I was at a jam in the Pecos, NM. In between songs, I rested my arm on the neck and heard a little "pop". "Strange", I thought. So I did it again. POP! The neck was coming off! I loosened the strings and put it up. Later, I found out that while bolts will provide good stability along the string’s plane, they do nothing for side-to-side stresses. I’d installed the neck with a really sloppy dovetail, trusting the bolts to do the work. By now, I’d learned a lot more about working on guitars, so I took the neck off again (it was already off!), got a tight fitting dovetail and glued it back together. I also scraped out the large rosewood bridgeplate and glued in a smaller maple one. A few weeks later, the neck was doing fine, but I noticed some bellying which hadn’t been there before. Attributing this to a too small bridgeplate, I removed the one I’d just installed and put in a slightly larger one. Still bellying with medium gauge strings…I really don’t spend all my waking hours studying this guitar, so I just loosened the strings and put it in the closet for a later date. When that later date came, I discovered a loose brace. Probably had loosened it while removing the bridge plate the first time. I glued it back down and strung it back up. No belly.

As I mentioned earlier, my first bridge was pretty clunky. Plus, I’d used Titebond for all my repairs. Once I discovered Luthier Mercantile’s white glue, though, I tossed all my Titebond. LMI’s glue dries hard and seems to really transmit sound well, plus it’s an aggressive glue. I didn’t really like the idea of having a sheet of vinyl (which is what Titebond is) between my bridge and top, so I went ahead and pulled off the bridge. This time, I shaped the bridge a LOT better, got the bottom nice and flat, shaved off the wings more and glued it down with LMI’s glue. This made a very noticeable difference in the guitar’s response and gave it a very crisp sound. Prior to this, I’d scalloped the saddle and nut, and by reshaping the bridge with the saddle glued-in, I got a perfect looking fit.

modzilla_top.jpg (63502 bytes)

The reworked bridge as of June 2000.

Somewhere alone the way, I also replaced my original Kluson copy tuners with some Gotoh’s with scalloped buttons. I went thru 2 pickguards before settling on a "40’s style" Tortis pickguard which is glued down to the guitar. I much prefer gluing the pickguard down, rather than using 3M tape.

Today, the "Modzilla" D-28 sounds great. Compared to my Collings CW, it’s louder, especially in the bass, and has a very powerful mid-range sound. It’s not quite as clear as the Collings, but its’ awfully close and it puts out an incredible rhythm sound with thick chords. The big neck is terrific for playing standing up, being very forgiving and easy to hang on to. I’ve played it at several jams now and I always get comments like "That guitar sounds great!" with the next comment invariably being "What is it?". I like to call is a W.A.S. Martin. Someday, I’ll inlay something tasteful on the headstock, but until I’ll just keep playing it! It’s been a long bumpy road for this guitar, but boy have I learned a lot from it!

December 2002:

Time to upgrade the Modzilla's page!! I've done several things to the guitar since the above was written. For starters, I took the neck, bridge, and bridgeplate off again, to re-glue them with hide glue. While all this was apart, I worked on the neck angle again and installed a Brazilian rosewood bridge instead of the usual ebony one. And finally, I opened the soundhole up to "Full Tony"- 4 9/16".

Modzilla_braz_bridge.JPG (59438 bytes)

This is the Brazilian rosewood bridge. Spacing is 2 3/8" center to center.



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Overall shot of the body



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Closeup of the top



Modzilla_neck_shim.JPG (61166 bytes)

This is what "reverse shims" look like. I've used these on customer's guitars from time to time to correct an over-agressive (not mine!) neck reset. These are a little more obvious than some I've done.

The guitar still sounds great! The Brazilian RW bridge really brought the treble and snap out, more than it's ever been before.

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[Admin]

Eine interessante Geschichte. Das, was bei uns die Jugend an Opel Mantas und Mopeds machte, hat er mit seiner Gitarre gemacht. Fünfmal auseinanderschrauben und wieder zusammenbauen.

@Chevere: Ich habe den Link repariert, damit interessierte Leser die Bilder betrachten können.